In the Friday, November 21, 2025 episode of the podcast The Excerpt: Dick Cheney has shaped the Republican Party for decades, from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the party’s internal struggles over Donald Trump. USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page explains how Cheney came to power, why he adopted controversial policies and how he came to support Kamala Harris in 2024.
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Liz Cheney:
Dick Cheney became a Republican under the influence of President Kennedy, but he knew that party ties must always yield to the single bond we share as Americans. For him, the choice between defending the Constitution and defending his political party was not an option at all.
Dana Taylor:
Former Vice President Dick Cheney, who died of complications from pneumonia and cardiovascular disease on November 3, was remembered this week at a memorial service at the National Cathedral. Although he is best known for supporting the Iraq War, in which no weapons of mass destruction were discovered, he has also earned a reputation as a fierce detractor of President Donald Trump.
Dick Cheney:
He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence in order to remain in power after being rejected by voters.
Dana Taylor:
What will his legacy be? Hello. Welcome to this excerpt from USA TODAY. I’m Dana Taylor. Today is Friday, November 21, 2025. There was a time when the Republican Party was Dick Cheney’s party, even though he never held the nation’s highest office. Unpacking the former vice president’s complicated legacy is USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page. I’m so glad you’re here, Susan.
Susan Page:
It’s very good to be with you.
Dana Taylor:
First, who spoke at the former vice president’s memorial service?
Susan Page:
Former President George W. Bush paid his respects there, delivering what was undoubtedly one of the event’s most important speeches. His daughter Liz Cheney, who succeeded him in the House of Representatives from Wyoming, also spoke. Pete Williams, who was one of Dick Cheney’s top aides when he was secretary of defense and later went on to a career as a journalist at NBC, also spoke. We spoke with his doctor, Jonathan Reiner. His doctor was an important figure in Dick Cheney’s life. He died at the age of 84, which is surprising considering he suffered from heart disease for many years. And we also heard from his grandchildren.
Dana Taylor:
When Cheney died, questions arose about how the old and new Republican establishment would react. how were they?
Susan Page:
He drew praise from former members of Congress and former Bush administration officials. Not so much from the current leadership of the Republican Party. President Trump said nothing after Dick Cheney’s death. The Trump administration ordered flags at federal buildings to be lowered to half-staff, which is, of course, required by law. And we saw current Vice President J.D. Vance make disparaging comments about Cheney shortly after his death. This is no longer the Republican Party that Dick Cheney played a major role in for eight years, as White House chief of staff, as a member of Congress, as a Cabinet member, and finally, of course, as vice president.
Dana Taylor:
Susan, can you tell us a little bit about Dick Cheney and how he got into politics?
Susan Page:
Dick Cheney was a Westerner. He grew up in Wyoming. He had dropped out of college at one point and seemed to be a bit of a wanderer. He then married his wife, Lynne Cheney, and that brought him back to his senses. She was, and always has been, a very disciplined person. He attended graduate school at the University of Wisconsin to earn his Ph.D. He took an internship in Washington, where he found his way, first working as a Congressional aide and then as the youngest White House chief of staff under President Ford.
Dana Taylor:
When it comes to style, there are no similarities between Dick Cheney and Donald Trump. Trump is desperate for the spotlight. Cheney did not. But is there a direct line between Cheney and the neoconservative movement of the 1990s and the nationalist, anti-globalist agenda that propelled Trump to the presidency?
Susan Page:
Well, Cheney definitely thought the United States had a big role in the world. For evidence of this, just look at the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which he supported and was the architect of. And it was a response to those wars, those long wars, that helped fuel the America First movement of which Donald Trump became the spokesperson. A desire to no longer be a policeman of the world, but to take care of fires close to home. Now, what’s interesting is that during his second term in office, President Trump has taken a more aggressive stance towards the world in the Western Hemisphere, the Middle East, and other regions. But that’s not exactly the case… Those are very different traditions than what we see in the Republican Party now and what we saw in Dick Cheney back then.
Dana Taylor:
Mr. Cheney led efforts to expand executive power. Did he lay the groundwork for some of what the Trump administration is trying to do?
Susan Page:
Yes, absolutely. He started expanding the powers of the executive branch that we’ve seen really blossom in the Trump era. He believed in an active, energetic and strong executive branch. And even though he’s a former congressman himself and was actually a member of the House Republican leadership, he really believes that it’s the presidency, the executive branch, that sets policy and carries out foreign policy in many ways, and we’ve seen that really come to fruition during the Trump administration.
Dana Taylor:
I would now like to turn to the cultural backlash of the Bush-Cheney era that resulted in the protracted wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you think that contributed to the mistrust of government that is characteristic of the MAGA movement?
Susan Page:
The big failure of the Iraq War was that the war was fought on the basis that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction that threatened the United States, and they were sold to the Americans. It wasn’t sold to Americans as some kind of nation-building exercise on the other side of the world. But as the war began and the war dragged on year after year, the conclusion that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was inevitable. The war was being peddled under false pretenses. And I think that has certainly eroded public trust in the government, and it has certainly eroded public trust in intelligence agencies.
Dana Taylor:
Dick Cheney, along with former President George W. Bush and former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, will of course be remembered for the war on terror. Tell us about that legacy.
Susan Page:
Now, the most controversial part of that legacy is Cheney’s support for what was then called enhanced interrogation techniques for terrorist suspects. And this is what many Americans and much of the world later determined amounted to torture. Some accused Dick Cheney and others of conspiring to commit war crimes. He took the most aggressive stance possible when it came to investigating terrorist threats, including unprecedented surveillance of American citizens. Dick Cheney never apologized for his approach to this issue. He said they helped keep the United States safe and that the United States won on his watch in preventing another 9/11-style terrorist attack on the United States.
Dana Taylor:
His daughter Liz Cheney has been a vocal critic of President Trump. She has supported former Vice President Kamala Harris and her presidential bid against Trump. Eventually, Dick Cheney, once a leading figure in the Republican Party, did the same. What reasons did he give for his actions?
Susan Page:
How unusual was that? If you look at Dick Cheney, who wasn’t just a Republican, he was a conservative Republican. He is a leader of the conservative Republican Party and has endorsed Kamala Harris as a presidential candidate and announced that he plans to vote for her. And his reason was not so much that he supported Kamala Harris and her policies, but that he said Donald Trump was a danger to the republic. It is not just a political danger, but a more fundamental danger to democratic institutions. I think this is how Cheney and his supporters see parallels with the War on Terror. Dick Cheney supported extraordinary measures against terrorism because he claimed to be protecting the United States, and because he saw Donald Trump as a near threat to his country, his republic, he turned to oppose Donald Trump in the most violent way politically.
Dana Taylor:
Susan Cheney was considered by many to be a shadowy figure. He once joked, “Am I some evil genius in the corner and no one sees me come out of the hole? Actually, this is a great way to go.” He was joking, but how will history remember him?
Susan Page:
Well, one thing that struck me was that he actually had a sense of humor. Now, he didn’t always show it, it was kind of dry Western humor. However, he was actually pleased when compared to Darth Vader. And he attended the Gridiron show, an annual dinner where members of the press perform skits and skits, and was depicted on stage as Darth Vader. He laughed when he saw it. He thought it was very funny and his grandchildren loved it too.
Now, I don’t know if it’s fair to say he really was Darth Vader. There is no question who was president. President George W. Bush made the final decision. And Bush took umbrage at the suggestion by some that Dick Cheney was actually responsible. However, Dick Cheney was certainly a very powerful figure, someone who worked behind the scenes and out of the spotlight. And I think that contributed to the impression that people had of him.
Dana Taylor:
Finally, Susan, was Dick Cheney the most powerful vice president in U.S. history?
Susan Page:
absolutely. There’s no question about that. And here’s one interesting thing, Danna. He was powerful in part because he was not ambitious. In other words, he had no intention of becoming president. He was very focused on his job as vice president, which meant he paid less attention to his own political positions. He was very focused on the job at hand as vice president. No vice president before or since Dick Cheney has had more power.
Dana Taylor:
Susan Page is USA TODAY’s Washington bureau chief. Susan, thank you for your time.
Susan Page:
thank you.
Dana Taylor:
We would like to thank Senior Producer Kaely Monahan for production assistance. Executive Producer Laura Beatty. Let us know what you thought about this episode by sending a note to podcast@Usatoday.com. Thank you for your attention. I’m Dana Taylor. We’re back tomorrow morning with another episode of USA TODAY, The Excerpt.
